
-------- TML Message #821 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 821
Subject: Re: Starship design revamping 
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 90 20:07:17 PST
From: (Leonard Erickson) leonard@tessi.UUCP



Sorry, but GURPS is wrong, and Traveller is much closer to being correct.
For the drives alone it can easily be shown that the "thousand miles to
the gallon" is correct.

First of all, there was a paragraph buried in the original rules that 
gave fuel consumption as an option. I worked it out and it gave an Isp
of 600,000 for the drive. (which incidentally matches the figure given
for a "fusion drive" on a chart that NASA seems to have put in 90% of the
secondary school classrooms in the US during the 60's) Isp relates thrust
and fuel consumption as follows: Isp =thrust(in pounds)/fuel consumption
(in pounds per second). Astute readers will notice slight problems with
dimensionality in this calculation. More astute readers will realize
that this is expected when one uses the same unit for mass and force. 
Anyway, to get 6 million pounds opf thrust with such a drive (same as a
Saturn V) you need 10 pound per second of fuel. This is enough to move
a 3000 ton ship at 1g. So much for 200 years of fuel...

If you want to figure it yourself, the standard rule of thumb is that a
fusion reaction converts .1% (.001) of the reaction mass into energy. So
you can figure from that how much fuel in needed to get how much energy.
This gives an lower limit for fuel consumption. It'll likely take more as
the equipment isn't going to be 100% efficient at turning the energy released
by the reaction into power or thrust, or whatever.

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-------- TML Message #822 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 822
From: (Matt Goldman) goldman@ferris.cray.COM
Subject: The Fifth Frontier War
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 90 10:44:44 CDT


Ah, the grand war. . .  I have rather fond memories of arriving at a
convention, all set to run a session of Traveller, the premise of my
adventure was that the players had been hired to make first contact
with a rather nicely located planet before the _EVIL_ Zhodanis could.
The players had been told that the Empire was very close to war with
the Zhodanis and that they should be careful.  I had just finished
briefing the players when one of them who had hit the dealer's room
held up the new JTAS with "WAR!" in large letters across the cover. .  .

The game went really well by the way.  Every character was created
secretly.  Everyone of them seceretly worked for a different side in
the universe.  They picked one of the Zhodani spies as their leader. .  .

I can tell more about the adventure if asked.  We were refered to as
"The Traveller display hit by a hand grenade."
- -- 
Matthew Goldman 	(612) 936-9675 goldman@ferris.cray.com

It's real handy, havin' an Elder God in the band, eh?"

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-------- TML Message #823 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 823
From: ("45252-Peter L. Berghold") wrgate.wr.tek.com!uunet.uu.net!allegra!violin!plb@tektronix.TEK.COM
Subject: hex map calculations
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 90 11:46:58 EST


Not too long ago somebody asked who to go about creating hex maps
with a computer.  What follows is a rather "dirty"program that I wrote 
not too long ago to create subsector map grids with troff.  It is 
written in C and is portable to MSDOS with the LATTICE C compiler.  Its
output should be fed through PIC before submitting to troff.   I wholeheartedly
make no claims on it whatsoever and it is free for all to use as they see 
fit.

- ----------------------------> CUT HERE <--------------------------------------


#include <math.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#ifndef LATTICE
#define CritAng	( (2 * M_PI) / 6.0 )
#else
#define CritAng ( (2 * PI ) / 6.0 )
#endif

main()
{
	int	Vertex;
	int	ix,iy;
	double	Radius;
	double  Ymove;
	double  Xmove;
	double	x,y;
	FILE	*fout;

	Radius= 0.5/sin( CritAng );	/* Sixty degree angle */
	Xmove= Radius + ( cos( CritAng ) * Radius) ; 
	Ymove= 2.0*cos (CritAng)  * sin( CritAng / 2.0 ); /* Thirty Degrees */
	
	fout=fopen("hex.pic","w");
	
	fprintf(stdout,".PS 7 5 \n");
	fprintf(stdout,"xmove=%.3g\n",Xmove);
	fprintf(stdout,"ymove=%.3g\n",Ymove);
	fprintf(stdout,"define Hex X\n");
	fprintf(stdout,"cx=$1\ncy=$2\n");
	

	for (Vertex=1; Vertex <= 6; Vertex++){
		y= Radius * sin ( (double) (Vertex-1) * CritAng) ;
		x= Radius * cos ( (double) (Vertex-1) * CritAng) ;

		fprintf(stdout,"hexx%d=%.3g\n",Vertex,x);
		fprintf(stdout,"hexy%d=%.3g\n",Vertex,y);
	}

	fprintf(stdout,"move to (cx+hexx1,cy+hexy1)\n");
	
	for(Vertex=6;Vertex>=1;Vertex--){
		fprintf(stdout,"line to (cx+hexx%d,cy+hexy%d)\n",Vertex,Vertex);
	}
	
	fprintf(stdout,"\"\\s-2$3$4\\s0\" at (cx,hexy3+cy) below\n");

	fprintf(stdout,"X\ndefine CreateMap X\n");
	for(ix=1;ix<=8;ix++)
		for(iy=1;iy<=10;iy++){
		if (ix%2 == 0 ) y=(double)iy + Ymove;
		else y=(double)iy;
		x=(double)(ix-1) * Xmove;
		y= 11-y;
		if ( iy < 10 ) 
			fprintf(stdout,"Hex(%.3g,%.3g,0%d,0%d)\n",x,y,ix,iy);
		else
			fprintf(stdout,"Hex(%.3g,%.3g,0%d,%d)\n",x,y,ix,iy);
	}
	fprintf(stdout,"X\nCreateMap()\n\n.PE\n");

	fclose(fout);
}



- -- 
/* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  */
/*		Peter L. Berghold					*/
/*		System Administrator					*/
/*		AT&T Red Hill Systems Administration Group		*/
/*		1F138	+1 (201) 615-4419				*/
/*		EMAIL (UUCP):	{uunet!allegra|att}!violin!plb		*/
/* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  */


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-------- TML Message #824 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 824
From: frisk@rhi.hi.is (Fridrik Skulason)
Subject: Idea for a PBE-M
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 90 10:35:14 GMT


[This came to traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com, looks like it was
meant for traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com.  Watch those automatic reply
headers! -- James]

There seems to be considerable interest in a PBE-M game - perhaps too much.
But what type of game would be best suited for our situation - a large
number of individuals running around ?

Well, I would suggest that a "treasure hunt" would be ideal.  Perhaps
something like this...

	"One of the richest and most eccentric individuals in the
 	 known universe died recently. His will contained only the
	 following text:

	 The source of my wealth will be given to the first person
	 or group who finds and understands my question to the following
	 answer.

			Answer: A cat from Alcyon

	 good luck..."



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-------- TML Message #825 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 825
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Subject: Re: Wanted: 1 Imperial Atlas
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 90 18:43:17 MET DST


[This came to traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com, looks like it was
meant for traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com.  Watch those automatic reply
headers! -- James]

> Fellow Travellers, I have a problem.  I'm new to the game (less than a
> year) and am playing MegaTraveller (as classic Traveller refs. are scarce
> these days).  My dilemma is that none of the MegaTraveller products detail
> the entire Imperial (at least from the map standpoint).  I see from the
> archives, however, that classic Traveller included something called, "Atlas
> of the Imperium", which sounds like exactly what I'm looking for.
> Are these still published?  If not, does MegaTraveller have something
> comparable?  I need the bigger picture.

No, Atlas of the Imperium is out of print. It might be possible to 
find it in some obscure stores, though.

For MegaT there has been talk from DGP about UPP's for 35 (?) sectors
on computer file. 
(A quick calculation makes an estimate of atleast 150kbyte)
A note in "Worldbuilder's Handbook" said that it would be available in
january 90 but it seems that it has been delayed.


- -bertil-
- -- 
Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg
NET: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se 
VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004     "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7"
SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN      (Famous last words)      
"Occationally he [Dulinor] rubs people the wrong way" Emperor Strephon 066-1116

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-------- TML Message #826 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 826
From: ("Brent L. Woods") woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
Subject: Psionics Abuse
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 90 19:18:12 EST



 In message:  <9001190042.AA15207@unix.cis.pitt.edu> Mike Metlay writes:
 >
 >And, my most pet peeve of all, the one thing I have never seen run or
 >played well in this game:  Psionics

     Yup.  Tough to run.  Not really in and of itself, but more from the
way some players (try to) use (abuse) it.

 >                                    (Take your pick:  either "Oh, he
 >can't sneak up on me, I'm reading his mind"

     There's a solution to this one.  I've had to deal with it several
times ("I'm just walking along, listening to the mental currents...").
The solution is...Psionic Strength Points.  Okay.  Joe Munchkin's new
*favorite* character "Biff the Absurdly Over-Muscled" has a PSR of 10.
He wants to walk along using telepathy as a warning device.  The Ref
says, "Okay," and, unbeknownst to Joe, strikes off one point *every ten
minutes*.  Yes, that's right--he uses up his psi in just over an hour
and a half.  Then, later, when he wants to use his psi in, say, an
interrogation, the Ref says, "That's unfortunate--you used up your psi
points hours ago, running continuous telepathy."  Needless to say, Joe
will try to "book lawyer" his way out of this (if necessary, he'll
whine) with some (usually quite creative) misinterpretation of the
rules.  The Ref's attitude should be, "Tough."  Eventually, Joe will
learn the lesson of Traveller Psionics (see below).

 >                                            or "You mean this guy I've
 >been running with for a game year is a psi?  Geez, I really feel bad
 >about this, but I blow him away when his back's turned.").  Sigh...

     I haven't seen this one, since my players tend to take the
pragmatic attitude that *any* extra power in their hands is a good
thing that might come in handy later.  Of course, this doesn't mean that
*NPCs* feel the same way...  :-)  Seriously, though, this kind of
situation is a perfect example of the other half of the Traveller
Psionics Lesson:

          Psionics are neat and flashy and can (occasionally) be useful,
          but they don't buy you enough to be worth the effort.

     Think about it.  They're hard to get (Psi institutes are *very*
rare, not to mention difficult to find), by the time you get them,
you're probably old enough that you have a very low strength, and they
provide a source of continuing danger to the possessor.

     Once a party figures this out, psionics ceases to be a problem.  At
least, that's how it has worked for me so far.


- --
     Brent

INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu  /  woodsb@attctc.dallas.tx.us
USENET:  pur-ee!gn.ecn.purdue.edu!woodsb
FIDONET:  Brent.Woods@p303.f40.n201.z1.fidonet.org  (from Internet)  or
          Brent Woods@1:201/40.303  (from FidoNet)
USNAIL:  320 Brown St., #406  /  W. Laf., IN  47906
PHONE:  +1 (317) 743-8421 (voice)


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-------- TML Message #827 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 827
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 90 20:17 EST
From: (Bob Mahoney) BOBMAH%PSC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: Need Technical Help


On page 21 of the MT Referee's Guide, there is a listing of the planets in the
Regina system.  Now the maximum orbit determination shown on page 26 says to
throw 2D for both primary and companion stars, with modifiers up to +8 listed.
That seems to indicate a maximum orbit of 20.

Now, the listing shows Thermidor, Olybrius, and Alise orbiting Cent, but Alise
is in orbit 25.  The remaining planets outward orbit Assiniboia, with Harcourt
at orbit 30 and Regina at orbit 55.

a)  I don't get this, and am reading it wrong.

b)  This is a typo.

Can anybody help me out on this?  My players are looking at some in-system
travel, (next session) and I am at a loss to tell them how long it takes.
(A a travel-time from Regina to Harcourt is my immediate goal...)

Thanks.

- -BobMah

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-------- TML Message #828 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 828
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 90 20:33:07 EST
From: (Kevin McFadden) fkam_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Subject: Renaisance



	I don't know how widespread Renaisance became but I will bring it up
anyway.  Basically it was a Traveller campaign that pitted players against 
each other; physically and economically.  The way I remember it was that each
participent decided what type of character they would play.  Examples of 
this are smuggler, merchant, pirate, etc.... You could also be the head of 
a populated world or system of worlds. These last ones also included keeping
your people happy, fed, all the problems we have now.  I don't really have any
specifics but I remember that it was played "blind."  No player knew who the
other player was... for all you knew you could have been attacking your best
friend.  If anyone knows of it let me know, or if there is enough interest I
could get my friend to try and hunt down the guy who ran it.

						Kevin McFadden
				

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-------- TML Message #829 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 829
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 90 13:12:43 est
From: (Eric Halil) wrgate.wr.tek.com!uunet.uu.net!munnari!uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au!erich@tektronix.TEK.COM
Subject: PBE-M TCS/Fifth Frontier War


Hi,

I've been reading the Traveller PBE-M discussion with great interest
and would love to play!

Seems heaps of people are interested in PBE-M Traveller roleplay.
Anyone interested in PBE-M Fifth Frontier War/TCS as well??

Jim Cunningham mentioned he'd played Fifth Frontier War PBM. This has the
advantage that the mechanics for a PBM FFW are already reasonably play-
tested so there shouldn't be any hiccups in the rules. As Paul (grue@...)
mentioned we tried working out a PBM TCS but got bogged down in combat.
If FFW has already been converted to PBM all that much better.

Unfortunately, I've never played FFW and know only the a basic outline
of the game.  I guess that it could probably accommodate quite a few
players though, one player per major fleet should be optimal.

Incorporating the "fog of war" rules from TCS (i.e. each fleet admiral
knows only what intelligence information he is given by scouts, local
planetary bases, etc. And no one has complete knowledge (except the GM,
of course!) about current locations/sizes/etc...) could make it interesting.

Comments? Suggestions?

Eric.
- -------------------------------+---------------------------------------------
Eric Halil                     |
Department of Computer Science |Internet/CSnet:      erich@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au
University of Queensland       |Bitnet: erich%uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au@uunet.uu.net
St Lucia    4067               |UUCP:     uunet!munnari!uqcspe.cs.uq.oz!erich
AUSTRALIA                      |JANET:     erich%uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au@uk.ac.ukc
- -------------------------------+---------------------------------------------

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-------- TML Message #830 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 830
From: (Bertil Jonell) d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: Re: Starship design revamping
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 90 10:39:15 MET DST


leonard@tessi.uucp writes:
> Sorry, but GURPS is wrong, and Traveller is much closer to being correct.
> For the drives alone it can easily be shown that the "thousand miles to
> the gallon" is correct.
> 
> First of all, there was a paragraph buried in the original rules that 
> gave fuel consumption as an option. I worked it out and it gave an Isp
> of 600,000 for the drive. (which incidentally matches the figure given
> for a "fusion drive" on a chart that NASA seems to have put in 90% of the
> secondary school classrooms in the US during the 60's) Isp relates thrust
> and fuel consumption as follows: Isp =thrust(in pounds)/fuel consumption
> (in pounds per second). Astute readers will notice slight problems with
> dimensionality in this calculation. More astute readers will realize
> that this is expected when one uses the same unit for mass and force. 
> Anyway, to get 6 million pounds opf thrust with such a drive (same as a
> Saturn V) you need 10 pound per second of fuel. This is enough to move
> a 3000 ton ship at 1g. So much for 200 years of fuel...

I'm not sure that the Isp is usable for reactionless thrusterplates...
This "fusion drive" is probably more similar to the "fusion rocket"
in the COACC.

I looked fusion up in a physics textbook and it states that for standard
deuterium fusion with all its secondary stages. (First deuterium fuse
with deuterium to produce various hydrogen and helium isotopes and free
neutrons and assorted other radiation. Then some of these products fuse
to make some more energy.)
The book gives the energy gained from fusion of one atom of deuterium
(including all byproducts etc) to 13E-13 Joules. 
The occurance of deuterium in hydrogene it states as 15 to 100,000.
(Deuterium is a hydrogene isotope).
One gram (1E-3 kilos, 1E-6 tons) of hydrogene contains 6.023E23 hydrogene
atoms, and will thus yield 11E9 Jouls. 
One ton of Tech15 plant uses 0.009 tons of H2 per hour.
This translates to about 99E12 MWatts per per kl of plant per hour or, in
other words, 99,000,000 MW per kl of plant...

(I hope I havn't done any errors too big to explain away:-)
- -bertil-
- -- 
Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg
NET: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se 
VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004     "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7"
SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN      (Famous last words)      
"GOOD DEEL ON SLIGHTLY USED CRANE" Orson Scott Card 'The Abyss'

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-------- TML Message #831 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 831
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 90 09:31 EST
From: (Bob Mahoney) BOBMAH%PSC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: Partial "Play by E-mail" solution


Hi all-

I expressed interest in in playing the email game (like everybody else),
and I'd still like to play, but it's plain that the interest level is pretty
high, and I wonder if Richard is going to have time/energy to integrate 20
different turn responses every week or so...

Is there any way that a second pair of fingers might help?  Possibly as part of
the double-blind setup?  As an alternative, possibly a second campaign.  I
would be willing to volunteer as a helper, or possibly a second referee.

In my experience, more than four players makes life hell for the referee, and
makes campaign depth and complexity difficult to maintain.  How many people are
we really talking about?  Some coordination is necessary.

I'm sending this to the list, rather than Richard, because I'm not really sure
if he's getting my side mailings.  ("Richard, blink if you can hear me...")

- -Bob


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-------- TML Message #832 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 832
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 90 10:32:16 CST
From: (Jim Cunningham) jcunning@gsliss.lis.uiuc.edu
Subject: FFW & things





FFW by mail was a blast. A friend of mine was reffing, and another friend
and I sent him fleet movements, combat orders, etc., which he would then
resolve and send back to us. The fog of war element added a great deal
to the game, and adding this to the game system which already involves
a great deal of fog by requiring players to plot several turns in advance,
made this real interesting. Add to this the fact that the ref threw in
a few outright lies to simulate glitches in inel gathering and you had a
real mess much like trying to plan and run a real war. PBM also has the
advantage that your opponent is not sitting at the other end of the table
waiting for you to make your move. If your schedule is as hectic as mine,
its handy to take a half hour or so when you have it and study the map.

The only real problem with the game is play balance (read: it's impossible
for the Imperium to win) due to the game being rushed through production,
but this can easily be fixed by altering the victory conditions and/or
increasing the Imperial reinforcement arrival speed. If anyone wants to
get a game going, I'll be happy to dust off my copy along with the PBM
modifications which we made up. Because of the amount of traffic (there's
a helluva lot of paperwork involved) I'd suggest using U.S. mail
for this.

I was disappointed when GDW did almost nothing with the war in terms
of adventuring. There was quite a build up for the war (as licensees
we got to hear the story ahead of time, which was great fun) but them
they didn't do much with it. The same seems to be true for the Shatered
Imperium-- the few adventures which have been done only barely touch
on the subject.


			Jim Cunningham
			Traveller Relic



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-------- TML Message #833 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 833
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 90 16:16:09 EST
From: (Greg Givler - PA) givler@cbmvax.commodore.COM
Subject: Re:  PBE-M TCS/Fifth Frontier War


>Unfortunately, I've never played FFW and know only the a basic outline
>of the game.  I guess that it could probably accommodate quite a few
>players though, one player per major fleet should be optimal.

This sound s like just what the doctor ordered I think that being able 
to play an admiral in the Zhodane or Imperial fleet would be a hoot.

>Incorporating the "fog of war" rules from TCS (i.e. each fleet admiral
>knows only what intelligence information he is given by scouts, local
>planetary bases, etc. And no one has complete knowledge (except the GM,
>of course!) about current locations/sizes/etc...) could make it interesting.

I have been looking for war games that do just that, think of being Lee
approaching Gettysburg, not know who or where Meade was, thinking that
Reynolds would be a better choice. Not having your cavalry to give you
the intelligence to make rational decisions. This is what a war simulation
is for me.

>Comments? Suggestions?

>Eric.





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-------- TML Message #834 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 834
From: (Adrian Hurt) adrian%cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
Subject: PBE-M TCS/Fifth Frontier War
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 90 19:43:10 BST


Eric Halil writes:

> Anyone interested in PBE-M Fifth Frontier War/TCS as well??

Me, for one; I would be interested in playing Fifth Frontier War.

> Incorporating the "fog of war" rules from TCS (i.e. each fleet admiral
> knows only what intelligence information he is given by scouts, local
> planetary bases, etc. And no one has complete knowledge (except the GM,
> of course!) about current locations/sizes/etc...) could make it interesting.

These are certainly new things to try in FFW!

 "Keyboard? How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #835 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 835
From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!reed.UUCP!oresoft.uu.net!richard@tektronix.TEK.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Sorry about the delay...
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 90 13:53:31 PDT


My apologies to all of you who have responded to my request to start
a play-by E-mail game.  Immediately after posting to the list, I
discovered (well, er, uh, more like got kicked around by) a serious
bottleneck in mailing from oresoft.  I've been experimenting with
numerous addressing methods to work around it, and think it's just
about licked.  I will get around to checking mail and so forth
*real soon now* 

Enough people have responded to warrant either two parties or a
large expedition.  Let me know what you prefer - or rather what your
characters prefer.  I will probably have one or two "shills" (aka
NPC's), but you won't know who they are; the *patrons* might be
player characters :).

Please give some thought to making your character multi-dimensional.
Get into his/her/its personality.  How old are they?  What are their
hobbies?  Why are here?  Do they like people?  Do they have old
emotional or physical scars they try to hide or show off?  Are they
rebels or conformists?  

Don't tell anyone (necessarily).  Just try to keep these sorts of
things in mind.  It will make for much more interesting character
interaction.
	Richard


All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #836 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 836
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 90 22:36:02 -0500 (EST)
From: (William Dow Rieder) wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: Starship design revamping


leonard@tessi.uucp writes:

>Sorry, but GURPS is wrong, and Traveller is much closer to being correct.
>For the drives alone it can easily be shown that the "thousand miles to
>the gallon" is correct.

No, it isn't. I did similar calculations for High Guard back in the bad
old days
and came to the same conclusion: the power plant/manuver drive did not use
enough fuel to account for the kinetic energy of the ship after
accellerating at
say, 1G for a month.
	The problem is that the MT manuver drives are not rockets! The fact
that they are reactionless has a fundamental effect on how much energy can be
given to the ship in the form of velocity. See below.

 d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se writes:

>I looked fusion up in a physics textbook and...

[lots of calculations deleted]

>This translates to about 99E12 MWatts per per kl of plant per hour or, in
>other words, 99,000,000 MW per kl of plant...

Your physics looks fine to me. The way the rules stand, fusion powerplants
are hideously inefficient. It is even worse than your calculations show,
because
you assume the hydrogen has not been enriched in deuterium in any way --
meaning that more than 99.9% of the fuel is just thrown away, or vented for
cooling, or whatever.
	The problem with the Mega-Traveller power plants and manuver
drives is very subtle. The inefficiency of the power plant is masked by the
remarkable (read: physically impossible) efficiency of the manuver drive.
Having a reactionless manuver drive not only lets you violate Newton's
3rd law (reaction for action), but conservation of energy as well! As far as I
can tell, it is impossible to have a reactionless drive without this property.

Example: Take a standard scoutship, which masses 916 tons full, has drives
that require 350 Mw to accellerate it at 2G's, and has enough fuel for a month.
Suppose it accellerates for a month in one direction. At the end of the
month, it
is travelling at 5.08E8 meters per second, giving it a kinetic energy of
1.182E23 Joules.  During that month, the drives have used 3.5E8 * 3600 * 24
* 30 = 9.072E14 Joules, giving an effective efficiency of 1,303,000,000%
(I want a drive like that for my car...)
	The energy to power the drive doesn't have to come from a fusion
plant. It could just as easily come from batteries, or lots of people
riding bicycle
generators. The fact that it usually comes from fusion plants just helps
to hide
their extravagant fuel use.
	The fundamental problem is that the manuver drive uses energy
at a constant rate, but gives the ship kinetic energy that goes up as
the square
of the time, assuming constant accelleration. This means there is NO fixed
number for drive power consumption that won't eventually start giving you
free energy, after going in one direction for long enough.  Sooooo.... if you
want your system to be consistent, you have to give up either reactionless
drives or conservation of energy. I personally favor keeping the drives,
because
they work in game terms, which is really the important part.
	The powerplant problem is more serious, because fusion plants are
used for things other than powering ship drives.  The MT fusion plant outputs
and fuel usage are lifted directly, unchanged, from Striker. This bothers me,
since it makes fusion plants not much better than fuel cells in terms of fuel
use per unit of output. Since they just took the numbers from Striker, and
made them apply to starships as well, I would prefer to go back to the
numbers from High Guard, which worked better (1 kl of fuel to power 1 kl
of plant per month at TL15, instead of 6.48 kl fuel per kl of plant as
it is now.)
If you think things are bad for starships, try designing a robot with a fusion
power source....

	Anyway, I thought people might be interested in the results I got.
Comments and error corrections welcome.

					W. Dow Rieder
				alias Capt. Kagariilian Grant

All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #837 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 837
From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!reed.UUCP!oresoft.uu.net!richard@tektronix.TEK.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Those who would play...
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 90 17:30:01 PDT


For some reason, I can mail to Tek, but most other places seem to be
verboten (perhaps "kaput" is a better word).  My system
administrator says he'll fix the problem tonight...

So, without reference to possible characters, here are those who
*I know* have requested a slot in the Play-by E-mail game coming up
shortly.  There might still be a few I've missed so don't panic if
you don't see your name.  Everyone who wants to should get in.

Bob Mahoney						Bob Moynihan
Gerald Williams					Fredrick Krage
Nicholas Sylvain				Greg Givler
Joshua Cunningham				Cynthia Lee
Dan Corrin						Steven Owens
Jan Peterson					Eric Halil
(Mr?) Bertil (Please send your name)

So anyway, those of you who sent in your requests early, never to
hear from me *DONT PANIC*.  You should all get mail in a day or two
(I hope).

This was, unfortunately, not a test.  Thanks for your patience if
not your understanding.
	Richard



All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #838 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 838
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 90 09:54:33 EST
From: (Brian Gillespie) bgillesp@beast.prime.COM
Subject: pbm



With the large number of people who have expressed interest in a pbm game
I thought I'd just sit on the side and watch, but no, my desire to play is
to strong.  So if it works count me in too.

As to character generation.  I think having people inform the GM as to the
type of character they wish to play, being as vague or detailed as desired,
and have the GM generate/supply the charater that best 'fits' the scenario
would be a good idea.  This way the GM can  also assure that some skills 
that are essential to the scenario are out there.  A few well placed unusual
skills can also act as a good misdirect.

Brian
essential to the scenario

All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #839 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 839
From: CHOINSKI@env.prime.COM
Date: 24 Jan 90 11:37:17 EDT


[Visit beautiful Feri, the twin worlds of paradise!]

I would also be interested in a FFW PBM if someone else can ref it.  I
think having 3-4 people per side would be kind of neat.  I could finally
dust off that copy in my attic and use it again!

Count me in if anyone plans to run such a puppy.

- -============================================================================-
 Burton Choinski                                       choinski@env.prime.com
   Prime Computer, Inc.                                  (617) 879-2960 x3233
   Framingham, Ma.  01701
 Disclaimer:  Down! Down! Down! Out! Out! Out! Mine! Mine! Mine!
- -============================================================================-


All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- End of TML Messages --------

